Posted by Strange on December 31, 1998 at 15:44:43:
In Reply to: Re: None of your business posted by Gene on December 31, 1998 at 14:41:35:
Gene, in praising Yang Jwing Ming and Kumar in the same posting you are doing something very funny. The references to the White Crane master, East Coast Master and many of the Chi Kung illnesses listed in Kumar's book are referring in a very major negative way to Yang Jwing Ming. Those passages are referring to Yang directly. One of Yang's students left learning from Yang for many years and went to learn from Kumar. While with Yang, he was very pro-Yang. After leaving Yang, he was just as anti-Yang and pro-Kumar as he had been pro-Yang. Kumar's reputation for Bagua and Wu style skill is good. His reputation as a person, on the other hand is not so good.
Dr. Painter's reputation is less than stellar. I used to have a book that he "wrote" that was given to me by someone I knew who had learned from him. It had the Tao Chi Chuan 100 day Iron Palm method in it. I also had a book on 100 Day Iron Palm published by a Chinese gentleman with an earlier copyright. The Tao Chi Chuan book written by Dr. Painter was a direct copy with the words Tao Chi Chuan inserted. This is called plagiarism and is serious enough in college circles to get a tenured professor fired.
You must be easily impressed.
: The fact that you formed any opinion of Kumar or any artist based solely upon what is in their books is indicative that your opinion is worth zero... Fortunately I have gotten to know Kumar over the years and I am a riend of his rep. in NYC... Believe me the time frame yoy refer to is legit and how he did it is none of your business.
: The problem with most people on the This board is that it appears that few have any fighting experience other than watching it on TV or reading about it. Both Kumar and Dr. Painter are martial artists and in the case of Kumar , a profound Chi Kung healer.. He appears distant sometimes because he spends alot of time teaching at the beginner level and brings alot of info to the table. His fault may be that he does not pander to the constant hand holding needs of the average American student..... much like Dr. Yang Jwing Ming... who in my opinion is a wonderful teacher... I suspect that most of you find fault with anyone, regardles of ability, who makes a living in TC.
: : :
: : Ive got the Frantzis book The Power of Internal Martial Arts. I thought it was a great introduction to Bagua and Hsing I but one thing seemed a bit suspect. In his introduction he claims to have gone to Japan for 3 years at the age of 19 then onto to China for 10 years. What 19 year old can afford to do that? I can only assume one of two things. Either he had many short visits and is exagerrating or he is from a really rich family.
: : Strange how so many of the prominent modern day Tai Chi "Masters" end up with really bad reputations for arrogance.
: :
: : Here we go into a great pissing contest again.
: : : One person praising Kumar Frantzis and John Painter and one running down Yang Chengfu and Wu Jianquan.
: : : On the Wu style, there are two stories about why the Wu style differs from Yang. One is that the Yang Family taught the modified Wu version to the Manchu people in Beijing and retained the "good" stuff for themselves.
: : : Seeing that the Yang style differs a lot from Chen, it seems that this is probably not really true. Otherwise, the Yang Family would do the harder training of the Chen style Yang Luchan learned. Since none of Yang Chengfu's sons did this and neither did Fu Zhongwen or Dong Yingjie, this line of reasoning seems flawed.
: : : The other story holds that the changes were made to accomodate the clothing worn in Beijing. Since other styles have also had modifications due to fashion such as the pidgeon-toed horse stance used in Wing Chun being higher than that used in other Crane styles being attributed to the restrictive clothing worn by Yim Wing Chun, it would seem that this line of reasoning is plausible. Also, since Wu Jianquan and Yang Chengfu both were friends and both taught at the same place it would be plausible that if Wu Jianquan was truly inferior in style to the Yang family, family pride would have mandated that the Yang family correct his affront. Since Wu Jianquan and Yang Chengfu were on good terms, this indicates that at least Yang Chengfu did not consider what Wu did to be of inferior or wrong quality.
: : : As for Frantzis or Painter, people need to be careful about who they praise. Kumar has a level of skill in martial arts but is not known to be a very nice or gracious person. In more than one competition where he was judging Bagua and Wu style, competitors have lodged complaints against his judging due to sleeping while they performed. Teachers have also lodged complaints in said events due to his rude responses when called on the closed eyes.
: : : His performances are good, his instruction may be good, but his martial manners leaves something to be desired.
: : : As for Painter, the man was a stunt man, magician, and escape artist in his early years. He claims his teacher was Li Lung Tao, a Chinese businessman in Texas. Interesting that Li Lung Tao can translate as Way of the Dragon Lee. He often will demonstrate Chi Kung in one location and then in another demonstration months later, do basically the same thing as a demonstration of Chi Kung fakery.
: : : Is this another case of good PR and publishing a number of articles making something seem better than it is?
: : : : If Kumar only knew as much as the collectivity on the BB then he didn't
: : : : have much to forget.
: : : : Also why does forgetting Yang style deserve praise?
: : : : What is Wu style if not Yang style done the wrong way?
: : : : As another great martial artist once noted "The Yang family deliberately
: : : : taught the Wu's a wrong way". Made them all walk around like strutting
: : : : chickens.
: : : : Dr. Painter as great? or just one of the living ones? Are all the really
: : : : great dead?
: : : : Poor Gene just can't get things right. Maybe it's time for him to take
: : : : up Tae Bo.
: : : : S.